In case you didn't get the memo,

Women are only at bars for the men. Women are only dancing for the men. Weare not dancing for ourselves or for each other. We are here for men to look at and get excited about. And to take what they want to dish out, because we have asked for it. Women should not hit. Women should especially not hit other women. Women must learn to suck up whatever displeases them, and never stop smiling, looking good, or being sweet for all of those that misinterpret us. After all, any failure in communicating is our fault. Be it to a man or a woman, we are only here to please.... And to look good while doing it.

[/sarcasm]

I've been arguing on message boards again. It started out as gay/lesbian rights.
It turned into women's rights. The two are so often linked, it makes me sick...

So, a brief summary:
There is a bar here that has banned four women. These four women are lesbians. The bar has an open policy against same sex slow dancing. Apparently it is not allowed because it makes the regulars uncomfortable. These are the facts I know. Along with the fact that the women are filing discrimination charges.

The facts I don't know are the context in which the women were banned. The owners said it is because they are troublemakers, the women say it is because of their sexual preference. As far as I am concerned, it doesn't matter. The fact that they have enforced the dancing policy is enough for me. They even had a sign posted. I was reprimanded for dancing with a friend before we knew of this policy.

Anyway, in arguing this, it came up that being hit on in bars makes women uncomfortable. But men are not banned from bars. This is what someone actually had to say:

"As for men groping women, the funny thing is, over the past 4 years that I've gone to [that bar], as well as other local meat markets, more often what I see are the women grinding on the guys, sticking their asses out in front of them, and going down in front of them in a very suggestive manner. So ladies, for all the complaints about being hit on, just look at the behavior of a lot of the women out there, then maybe you'll understand why some guys are all hands. When I was 21, dirty dancing was just a movie. Now 15 years later, it's standard behavior at most bars."

I obviously was not happy about this statement. Other gems from his friend his wife, and himself included these lovely quotes, which are better understood in context. But I want them here to serve as a reminder that people are not as progressive as I often delude myself to be.

The statements:

" I stand by my statement 100%. But my meaning was that THOSE WOMEN DOING THE GRINDING are creating the atmosphere for it"

"if i see _you_ dancing all crazy like, i don't assume you are loose, but probably only because i know who you are and enough about you to know you are not. i can not say the same about other random people into the dance floor antics."

"there really is something to be said for personal presentation and impression making. ..even at a bar!"

"i think any quick judgements about a persons promiscuity are not good to be making, but if you're relationship (or ass) shopping, these days you kind of have to make such decisions. social cues such as club/bar behaviour are largely the only thing people have to go on in terms of the initial stages of coupling, so you can't say that an attempt to interpret such cues is a bad thing."

"I've been dancing all of my life and I know the difference between sexy dancing and just having fun dancing. If I went up to a guy and starting grinding on him or sticking my ass all over him and then slapped him for touching me I would be contradicting myself. Now if I was minding my own business and the same thing happened that would be a different story.
But I don't care what you say, the way a person dances says a lot about what that person is trying to get across. Have I ever gotten freaky on the dance floor? Hell yah and it was a lot of fun watching all the guys squirm the whole time. Are you seriously trying to tell me you go to a bar, get freaky, and don't welcome the attention it brings? Ummm yah whatever."

"As for [my husband] being a sexist whatever, that just makes me laugh. Anyone with a brain that actually knows him, knows better. The guy does his fair share of cooking, dishes, and laundry. He even changes dirty diapers."

"Notice what I described were women obviously looking for attention. And any woman who dances provocatively IS looking to be noticed. You can't dance that way and not expect to be gawked at."

"I came from the original MTV generation of the 80's, when videos actually had some stories, or people lipsynched with really bad hair. The MTV generation you have grown up with features near-naked women grinding and shaking. Videos these days teach women how to be a ho, and men how to be players. And that's what I see at the local meat markets. The college-age kids at bars these days are what I call the "girls gone wild" generation."

Obviously this has me less than pleased.

I've been arguing it out with them, and I know it is not over. I will reflect soon.

Right now, I'm just in shock.
I honestly had myself convinced that people were not this closed-minded.
I truly thought we had moved beyond this kind of thought....

Well, regardless of how much they want to believe these outrageous things, it all boils down quite easily.....


All I can say is that if men are deluded enough to believe that a girl's dancing is an invite for you to violate her, then they seriously are mistaken and I really hope that they one day have to face Real consequences of their behavior.



And if a girl is doing nothing but dancing the way her peers do, and that makes men think that they have some justification for being chauvinistic, then I suppose they do. But that justification is not that the woman was asking for it. It is that the man is nothing but an ignorant, sexist chauvinist.